1. Maestro

January 20th, 2006 at 6:05 am

It is most unsettling that any form of protest is being crushed in Nigeria.

I find it puzzling that the Anglican church wants to model other civilized society by stamping out other opinions than their own.

2. tdave

January 20th, 2006 at 8:04 am

sad.

another step backwards.

3. Ben

January 20th, 2006 at 8:41 am

I totally support the new law banning same sex marriage. We must uphold our traditions and culture and not contiune to take up every decadant new fad from the Morally bankcrupt west. One of main reasons India and China are doing so well is they have been able to keep and pass on their cultural values from generation to generation, while absorbing the postive aspects of western culture. I am not homophobic, far from it, but I really get upset when the rest of world is expected to folow lockstep everything that happens in the west. Homosexuality is alien to our culture, no Afican society I know of every tolarated it. The govt is only trying to protect and uphold our culture, what’s so wrong with that. After all the french do it all the time

4. Oj

January 20th, 2006 at 9:07 am

I would refer the last commentator (Ben) to the book Boy Wives and Female Husbands to explore whether it is really true that no African society tolerated homosexuality. I also make reference to the phenomenon of yan daudu in Hausaland in Northern Nigeria, which is fairly well known.

If we want to proscribe certain things we should be clear about why we are doing it, and not hide under the convenient triteness that it is against our culture. Is the internet part of our culture, or blogging, or corruption? Culture is dynamic and for it to evolve, debate is necessary. This new law closes the room even for debate which is very worrying. But perhaps you will retort that democracy is not part of our culture- another false triteness

5. james

January 20th, 2006 at 10:27 am

If you were to ask some gay people if they thought being gay was a ‘fad’ you might get some indignant responses. Homosexuality is ancient. Only recently has it been accepted and legalized in a few countries in the West. Banning it legally does not stop it, as its a naturally occuring preference to a small and increasingly present part of any county’s population. African countries and peoples i think are generally scared of change(forgive my broad sweeping generaliziation but i think in this case, its true). Sure keep your traditions, tilt you traditions when they need balancing with reality. Prostituion is another area which never goes away and needs an open mind and legal support for the protection of women and facilties for them rather than leaving them at odds on the street while ignoring the problem.

6. Never

January 20th, 2006 at 1:28 pm

Never! Never!! Never!!! I support, like majority of Nigerians do, the recent ban on Sodomy, Gay or whatever you call it. It is against our culture. It is against our God. It is against nature. It is despicable. It is an abomination. Homophobic or no homophobic, it will never be permitted in Nigeria, at least not in my life time. Democracy is the rule of the majority, and no amount of blackmail can overturn what the majority wants. Why can’t discussion be held over permission of Armed Robbery, Assasination etc…. Very soon Incest will be permitted in the so-called developed world…. I repeat, Never will Sodomy be permitted in Nigeria. And as you already know this, you are advised not to bother come to Nigeria to propagate your warped Idealogy, it’s either you’re stoned or you are sent to prison.

7. Teju Cole

January 20th, 2006 at 2:04 pm

So sad.

Both the law and its idiotic bible-quoting supporters. Should the very concept that other people might have private rights be so foreign to our society?

No mistake about it: this is a symptom of Nigeria’s intellectual and social stagnation.

8. owukori

January 20th, 2006 at 4:48 pm

The arrogance and hypocrisy of the moralisers and the righteous.

9. Jeremy

January 20th, 2006 at 6:40 pm

The two outbursts of homophobia in the comments above repeat the two things one hears some in Nigeria say in the absence of thought:
1. That it is unAfrican/against our culture
2. That it is against our God.

1. Nigeria suffers from a lack of contemporary research, especially in the area of sexuality. However, one thing is sure - when that research comes through, we will find, as we find everywhere else in the world, that the world is not as it seems. Just like Bonobo monkeys, human sexual desire does not fit into simple categories. We will find, as in the Hausa example cited by the commentator above, example upon example of same-sex practices in different cultures in Nigeria. This is how we humans are: arrestingly diverse, with desires that proliferate and find many forms, running like water over the landscape of existence.

Either we accept and embrace that about ourselves or we respond with fear and loathing. Homosexuality is found everywhere in nature too - apart from the Bonobos, many species have a percentage of same-sex individuals in their midst. And the idea that somehow homosexuality is a decadent occidental import is the flimsiest of arguments, which this research would show.

Whether one resents the fact or not, all human cultures are dynamic, they change every second. Nigeria is changing fast, under the maelstrom of globalisation. The reactive gesture of further criminalising same-sex practice is a frightened knee-jerk response to this globalisation, which sets the country back enormously in terms of its human rights profile. But the waves of progress hitting the country will continue and continue and continue, as technology, capital in-flows, increased movement of peoples and increased returnee interest grow and grow. Nigerians are too dynamic a group of people to be held back by stale old ideas.

But instead of just slagging these two commentators off (it would be so easy to do), I ask them to try to embrace change. The UK and elsewhere countries with progressive legal protection of same-sex relationships are not cesspools of moral decay. As the recent bombings in London showed, Londoners (as New Yorkers did 5 years before), pull together in genuine care and concern for their neighbours in times of trouble. Contrast that with the widespread apathy and non-responsiveness soon after the recent plane tragedies in Nigeria. What did the authorities do to the bereaving mothers? Tear gas them. Now ask yourself where is the morally depraved society? Sex between consenting adults should be a purely private affair, beyond the ken of the State or the Law. And straight men and women have no privileged access to ethical conduct, regardless of how one’s prejudices might wish it were otherwise. Any other position than this is pre-modern, and would be viewed by the rest of the world as repressive and morally reprehensible.

2. Homosexuality against God. I simply ask whose God? For how long have their been Christians or Muslims in Nigeria? Were there not Gods worshipped before Usman Dan Fodio and the missionaries came? What has happened to these Gods? Are they now to be despised? Were these Gods intolerant Gods? Was Sango gay or straight? There are so many questions to ask about Nigerian cultural history and pre-colonial spiritual traditions, which the idea of gay-sex being unGodly silences without thought.

The more general point in all this is that Nigerians have had a history of being friendly, tolerant people, accepting other people’s differencies and peculiarities. So why should intolerance be promoted now, just when the country is turning in a positive direction? As long as your gay brother does not harm you, why lock him up?

The fact is, same-sex practice will continue in Nigeria, as it has always done. The criminalisation has simply driven it further underground. Most gay Nigerian men are happily married; arrangements will continue as before.

The consequences of the new Law will be a Salem witch hunt affair of Taliban proportions, with enemies accused of being gay, the police being paid, and 5 years of suffering ensuing. All Nigerians will lose out in this arrangement, as human rights hang by a fragile thread.

Peace be to all men and women, whatever they do in the spaces of their privacy.

10. sondjata

January 20th, 2006 at 8:35 pm

Sango gay?
really?

What would Oya have to say about that?

11. Unpartisan.com Political News and Blog Aggregator

January 20th, 2006 at 9:47 pm

Md. Judge Strikes Down Gay-Marriage Ban

A judge on Friday struck down a 33-year-old Maryland law against same-sex marriage, agreeing with 19

12. Leonard Jordaan

January 20th, 2006 at 10:39 pm

Here in complacent Canada we are about to elect a new Bush loving prime minister who intends to rescind the definition of marriage as being between two people and to return it to the traditional one of being between a man and a woman: more in tune with his fundamentalist christian beliefs:
Limbo resurrected

13. owukori

January 21st, 2006 at 12:16 am

What is most frightening about this law is that it makes it illegal to campaign for what is a human rights issue thus preventing any discussion or possibility of change in the future. I have no legal background but I wonder if this law would be upheld in court as Nigeria is signature to the International Convention on Human Rights.

The supporters of this law take the moral high ground claiming homosexuality is not part of our culture (untrue). Yet they are the same people who condone domestic violence, infidelity, corruption, the use and abuse of children as child domestic slaves. What all this tells me is there is a complete lack of respect for fellow human beings and their rights, along with a self righteous arrogance and ignorance. Teju’s comment says it all Nigeria is “intellectually and socially stagnant”.

14. RYAN KELLERMEYER

January 21st, 2006 at 6:24 am

Greetings,

I thought this might interest you:

LINK TO ARTICLE ON MY BLOG

If you have any input or suggestions, I would really appreciate it. I am fairly ignorant of many African issues and would love the input and support from people who are more experienced.

Peace!

Ryan

15. soul

January 21st, 2006 at 5:35 pm

I have no doubt that you might find many people who will volunteer for this. I read your comment on Owukuri’s blog (Blacklooks) and decided to see what this was about.

I’m seriously wondering what you thought about the issue being debated?. Because it seems you had absolutely no interest EXCEPT to promote your own agenda.
And Boy what an agenda. Has Africa not been paraded in it’s nakedness enough for you?.
Has it not been turned into a victim enough for you?.

So the ethos of your film is to what? Highlight what exactly? and in the proicess do what for you? and the people you leave behind?.
So if you got to what the West classifies as a poor village because they have none of the consumerist bullshit that the west has, but they manage to eat fresh food they grow themselves .. then what?
If you find out that they might be starving but they are happy.. then what?
if you find out that they are starving and dying then what?

Ever thought of going down to Miami, yes Miami or indeed Alabama, to examnine the diet of the poor people overe there?.
How about taking a trip to scunthorpe in the UK, what about poland, romania?.
what is it with the need to strip Africa of any prode it has in itself and display it and it’s people infront of the world with no consideration for their human dignity?

16. kris

January 21st, 2006 at 7:00 pm

‘though i’m not religious, i know all religions are basicaly about LOVE, that’s what they all have in common :
“love is the only way to go on together with this world”, it’s the surviving technique.

So don’t pretend religion is against love.
So many people are same gender loving so don’t say it’s unnatural.
Let people be sincere in their love !

Society’d better support loving couples, and that’s what marriage-right makes so essential.

17. owukori

January 21st, 2006 at 7:57 pm

Thanks Soul - ditto - try starting with you own backyard.

18. RYAN KELLERMEYER

January 21st, 2006 at 8:50 pm

Check me out and see if I have started in my own backyard. I’m very active in my neighborhood, but I have global concerns as well.

blog
pocast 1
podcast 2

One of the side benefits of looking to someone else’s yard is that it will help me continue what I’m doing here in Philly.

I’d love to have your support on this latest idea. If you don’t agree with my approach, tell me why and give me an opportunity to learn from you.

Thanks!

Ryan

19. Jude Idada

January 21st, 2006 at 9:13 pm

As is expected, the minions who serve as the socio-political and spiritual rulers of Nigeria are intent on throwing back the nation into the stone age. What is the essence of democracy and fundamental human rights if the right to agitate or protest or campaign for any issue under the earth is not protected. Nigeria has more pressing issues that deserve attention and gay unions is definitely not one of them. Shame on proponents of political stupidity and social mayhem.

20. soul

January 22nd, 2006 at 11:08 am

Ryan .. I have communicated with you via email, and I don’t doubt that you have some good intentions. However, you are hijacking a thread which is about something which is equally as imortant to us. And that the rights of people in Nigeria to express their love for whoever they want and the right for others to be tolerant.

What you are doing is the equivalent to breaking up a debate on the patriot act (just when it was being introduced) whilst people are trying to organise protest or spread information about it so that enough challenges to the law can be made before it goes ahead…
by presenting an argument or proposal on unemployment in the Americas.

Yes. unemployment affects all of the Americas, but in slightly different proportions. You don’t seem to be able to see beyond what WANT to do. To realise that poverty affects all of us yes. But in different proportions. Africa is a huge continent. Do some research. Not a country.

Stop breaking up what is a very necessary discussion on a necessary issue because you feel that what you are trying to do is more urgent to the entire continent as a whole.

Remember 50 over 50 countries in Africa.. all varied. Do some research!.

21. Ben

January 22nd, 2006 at 11:36 am

It’s good to see a healthy debate ragging on this issue since my first post there have been some who have resulted in the usual cheap and intellectually lazy position of throwing around accusations of ‘homophobia’. Let me just reiterate I am not homophobic, I simply do not believe that one has to embrace every single facet of western culture in order to be ‘Modern’. To the poster who say culture is dynamic and changes I say of course but surely that this is the crux of my first post. In a global village how do we as Africans maintain a culture that upholds our values and traditions while enabling us be active players on the global scene. Iam sorry but for me accepting ‘willy-nilly’ every fad from the west is not the way. Owukuri above states that the Uk is not a cesspool of moral decay with its progressive policy. REALLY? Do you really mean that a society with the highest rate of STD’s and Teenage Pregnancies, Teen alcoholism in Europe is not in moral decay? A society where yobbishness and anti-social behaviour by youths is so rampant that the PM recently had to lunch a RESPECT agenda. How can anyone say this is not a society in moral decay? Are you now saying these are the kinds of cultural practise we should allow in Nigeria for the sake of globalisation. Nigerians we must not be afraid to proudly define ourselves in this so called ‘New World order’ as Africans with our own set of values. I say again look at the Indians. Despite their economic success they maintain their culture, in fact this has been the bedrock of their success to a very large degree. Why does everyone think that Globalisation has to be a one-way street from the ‘developed’ west to the ‘ignorant’ south. If indeed cultures are dynamic then Africa can also teach the west a thing or two about respect, love and care of family, and the unbending, unshakable belief that Marriage as being between a man and woman. This is not me being homophobic, it’s just me upholding a culture which is centuries old and of which I am very proud. I wish the Nigerian Govt Godspeed in their efforts to protect our culture from this latest Fad. Gay Marriage is one western import we can do without

22. jeremy

January 22nd, 2006 at 2:35 pm

Hi Ben

I’m glad that you continue to engage in the debate in a calm collected manner. This is what the Internet should be about - engaging discussion and challenging ideas. I also respect you for “disagreeing without being disagreeable” (a lesson so few people learn).

However, your last post merely repeats the basic false premise in your earlier post. The idea that gay relationships are not part of African culture is FALSE. There are countless cultural and sub-cultural forms homosexual practice has taken in Nigeria in history and in the present, as elsewhere in Africa and the rest of the world.

So your idea that it is a Western import is completely false. And whether you are willing to admit it or not, you ARE homophobic simply by holding these beliefs. Homophobia doesnt have to mean you hate gays; it can also mean that your stance is one of a calmer form of rejection (which I believe is your position).

The funny thing about this proposed new law is that it will change very little. Married gay men will continue with their arrangements. There is nothing you or the law can do to stop this.

As someone said, a similar issue applies with drugs and with prostitution. There is nothing any of us can do to stop people taking drugs or to stop men paying for sex. Rather than proscribe these activities, it is far healthier surely to bring them into the sphere of recognised society and allow for State regulation; where drug-taking involves harm, it should continue to be made illegal. Without wishing to digress too much, an example here would be the skunk vs marjuana debate. Skunk weed is known to cause much higher rates of schizophrenia than ordinary dope. Strong controls of skunk should be in place, whereas it is debateable whether banning dope outright would help at all.

So, there is and should be no linkage between the issue of homosexuality in Nigeria/Africa and any real or speculated Western moral degeneracy. I agree with you, a section of youth in the UK are spinning out of control. But the reasons for this are complex and local, and do not really point to a more widespread moral degeneracy; still less should they be linked to the relative freedom gays have over there. They are in fact completely separate issues: poverty and sexuality can become intertwined issues (it is the reason why many students in Nigeria are drawn to sleep with married men for money) - but they are not intertwined in this case.

I hope you are following my drift. Making gay relationships illegal here changes nothing, but WILL harm Nigeria’s human rights profile, at a time when the country needs all the friends it can get in order to transform its dire international standing.

Finally, uou keep mentioning India. In my experience, evangelical christianity completely deracinates Nigerians from their own cultural history. Of course, there is a double standard here - many of those who go to Redeemed or House on the Rock or whichever other mushroom church also seek remedies from herbal medicine and would also go to see the babalawo in times of need. But they would never admit this in public. Ben - you know this to be the case. But openly admitting that one believes in the power of unseen forces (for good or bad), openly admitting that Ogun and Sango and Obatalla are still among us (and their equivalents elsewhere in the different ethnic groups) is completely proscribed. This hiatus from Nigerian cultural history is dangerous, and impedes development: it means that Nigerians will continue to depend on another type of import - in this case a theological one.

Ok I’ve rambled on too much. Would you, could you, just accept that a) homosexuality was not invented recently in the West (this is a ludicrous proposition) b) that homosexual practice in the West has not suddenly been imported into Nigeria (this is a denial of agency and reveals an absence of understanding your own cultural history in all its complexities) and c) that homosexual practice does not lead to moral degeneracy?

Somehow, I dont think you will!

23. jeremy

January 22nd, 2006 at 2:41 pm

One other thing Ben - if marriage is so sacred in Nigeria:
a) how come there is so much infidelity?
b) how come so many men sleep with prostitutes?
c) how come so many men beat their wives?

Is this something to be proud of, and would you still want this to be a proud African export?

24. obifromsouthlondon

January 22nd, 2006 at 7:50 pm

jeez i’ve never seen an issue generate so much blog heat as this one. so it’s un-African to be gay? it’s against our culture? much as I’d like to debate this i personally feel much pressing matters need to be addressed. not to say that i dismiss the same-sex issue as irrelevant and not to be debated but honestly think it’s the least of Nigeria’s problems.

@soul i think the Indian analogy is a bit extra. I work with a lot of indians and they share the same “culture abandoning” habits we africans do. the so-called western globalisation is rampant and spares no one in it’s capitalist march.

on gay marriages whats the point?

25. jeremy

January 22nd, 2006 at 7:57 pm

Obi I dont think you’ve thought this through. The proposed Bill outlaws gay relationships (not just marriage) as well as activism. It is therefore a green light to witch-hunt type activities. It goes to the heart of whether Nigeria embraces human rights or doesnt. It also speaks loudly of the power of the extreme religious right (of which Akinola is the megaphone) and the weakness of any more progressive position. Just imagine Obi that you lived in Nigeria and you were gay. With the bill looming, you could spend 5 years banged up, on account of your desires? Now tell me that is irrelevant.

26. Victor

January 22nd, 2006 at 8:20 pm

I’ve read a lot of the postings with some interest, and like any good and open debate there are a lot of interesting points of view. So I would like to make my own small contribution.

The US declaration of independence has this lovely quote “that every human being is entitled to the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”. This is one statement that applies to everyone, whether they are gay, straight, bi whatever.

But that being said let’s ask the question what is a ‘Civilization’? A short definition is shown below

“A society in an advanced state of social development (e.g., with complex legal and political and religious organizations)”

Whether we agree with all aspects of a particular society or ‘civilization’ each and every society lives and breathes by rules and practices that it is most comfortable with, though these can change over time, such change is not always desirable.

From my perspective no person should be persecuted for being Gay, but that does not mean we have to support every aspect of Gay life or give Gays every right that is enjoyed by heterosexuals, especially in the area of marriage. This is not about being homophobic; minority rights are always a problem in any society, whether they are sexual, political or financial. When was the last time an Edo man was elected president of Nigeria?

At this stage in the development of our ‘Civilization’ the rights of Gays in Nigeria cannot be a high priority and if I were the president I would have just left things as they were. By enacting this new law it draws unnecessary attention to an issue which when measured against all the other things wrong with Nigeria is totally insignificant.

I think Jeremy is bit too ‘emotional’ about this issue and he is wrong in saying that Ben is homophobic. Being Gay is not a western import, but granting the same rights of marriage to Gays is a western import, and at this time we don’t need it in Nigeria.

We are Nigerians and we live within the African context and some things do not sit easy with us.. Even in the ‘Civilized’ west there is not an overwhelming support for increased gay rights, and in ‘advanced’ countries like Italy it is almost impossible to debate the issue.

So let people be gay of they chose to be, but our society still has a long way to go in realising the “inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” for the majority of Nigerians of all shades, and this needs to be our highest priority.

Maybe one day in the future when our children can all go to school, get good jobs and not have to escape to the west to sweep the streets and work in fast food bars, and we have access to the facilities others take for granted, then we can debate ‘luxury’ rights, but now is not the time.

27. jeremy

January 23rd, 2006 at 12:07 am

Trouble is Victor, this has become an issue, thanks to the extreme religious right’s untimely intervention. If we are to talk the language and logic of rights (as you want to), one cannot grant more rights to one group of people over another: surely your citation of the Declaration of Independence shows you that? Put simply, one cannot say “two legs better than four” in the arena of rights. And one cannot differentiate between essential and what you call ‘luxury’ rights when it comes to sexuality. What is more key to one’s private being than one’s sexuality? And what more fundamental way of one’s being being denied is the State making sanctions in the arena of sexuality?

At present, Nigeria’s constitution has 101 amendments to be reviewed by the political process, apparently one of which includes the right to a third term. One of the key aspects missing from any of the recent debate on constitutional reform (including last year’s conference) is the whole issue of rights. Unlike the set-up in America, there is no Bill of Rights in Nigeria. As citizens, Nigerians are by and large not aware of their rights. This is a crucial issue to be addressed in a context where there is a high-level of distrust between State and populus. The issue at this key turning point in the country’s history is whether a progressive, rights-based agenda is adopted, or the country sinks back into an Iranian-style theocracy (albeit a parallel track theocracy). What is deeply worrying is that just like Iran, Nigeria seems to be taking ten steps backwards, just when the opportunity arises for it to move forwards, economically, politically, and in terms of a citizen-centric agenda. Onlookers the world over can only see respond to last week’s news with dismay.

In terms of your tired repetition of the argument that this is all about copying the West, you forget also that the immediate catalyst for this whole farago is events in South Africa, NOT in the West. You forget also that black South Africans had spent decades sweeping their countries streets, and working in fast food bars like their Nigerian brothers do today in the West: and yet, when Mandela was released, they gave their consent to the most progressive constitution ever written.

28. obifromsouthlondon

January 23rd, 2006 at 12:16 am

perhaps i was being dismissive of the issue and have thought about it some more. I apologise. it is very wrong to be persecuted on basis of same-sex relationships. I have the benefit of knowing a few gay people (yes they are real people my friends! sometimes we forget) and they have the same everyday issues as all a straight head like me.

The reason I was dismissive was because it smells of political redirection. kinda like a bush move. give the moral majority some issue to dwell on while we cover up some other mess. Like someone said in one of the comments Nigerian law bans homosexuality so why the big debate on Gay Marriage? It implies Gays are already free under law but should not consider marriage. thats a false position. so why the debate in the first place? actually I correct myself on the use of the word debate.

a strong point here has been made about how “un-African” it is. This implies the existence of a “Gay Nation” trying to pollute African culture. I’ve met gay british, nigerian, kenyan, irish people. male and female. perhaps they are the hidden army of polluters from the planet Gay. it is the right time to bear arms

29. owukori

January 23rd, 2006 at 2:34 am

Just a brief comment Obi - It is not so much the banning of gay marriage or even criminalising same sex relationships - that has law has been in place since the colonial period. What I am more concerned about and what Jeremy has also mentioned but has got lost in the debate is the criminalisation of any activism or campaigning in support of gay and lesbian rights. G & L rights are human rights thus the law will prevent any change in the laws in the future. More than that this compromises the whole issue of human rights in Nigeria and kowtows to religious intolerance and dogma. To repeat this is not a gay/lesbian issue it is an issue of human rights and shows the complete lack of respect of human rights by the government and religious commuinity in Nigeria. Nigeria is a country full of God and religion yet it is also a country riddled with intolerance, bigotry,judgement discrimination and self-rightousness - these are matters that we as Nigerians should be concerned about as they impact on every other aspect and problem that the country faces.

Sondjata - a throw away comment - Shango may or may not have been gay - who knows? what is important that it being gay does not change anything about a person - they remain the same. If they are thieves they remain thieves, if they are heroes they remain heroes, if they are gods they remain gods.

30. Anthony Arojojoye

January 23rd, 2006 at 5:30 am

Please see trae’s post . I don’t wanna duplicate energy.

31. sule

January 23rd, 2006 at 12:29 pm

Ben you are wrong!!There is no ‘yan-daudu’ phenomenon.The Hausa language is on of the few African languages that describes this unholy act,hence the term.It is not in our culture and you should desist from misleading people.Nowhere in Africa is this act tolerated even in your village if are african.Please dont be deceived by the west and their so called human rights.Where were the so called activists when women and children are being killed in Sudan,Somalia and the Congo.Brother,as we say here,shine your eye.

32. Jenny Lopez

January 23rd, 2006 at 4:45 pm

Before I continue I wish to state the following:

1. I am neither homosympathetic or homophobic, the only homo I care about is sapiens sapiens!

2. I absolutely do not condone same sex couples being allowed to bring up children! In my humble opinion this will be psychologically catastrophic to a child, it’s bad enough having uncontrollable, psychotic kids being brought up by useless parenting from “normal” couples and, don’t forget, single parents!

3. I support same-sex “unions”, marriages etc, as I believe this has no effect whatsoever on the more important issues affecting the World as a whole today! Weve got far bigger wolves to slaughter than fret over this triviality. If two people are of the age of consent and can legally marry, good luck, just don’t bring other innocents into the party, like children! I do, as has been mentioned in some posts feel Nigeria should deal with the more serious problems facing it. I would say religious bigotry and theological subversion of the State are a top priority! Religion is a deadly mind game, as I like to say: “Religion is God’s cruellest joke on Humankind!”. We all know the endless mindless violence and destruction Christianity and Islamania can bring to a once peaceful country, witness the Dafur atrocities! In our potentially great Nation the very real threat of shari’a being spread down south on the whims of the descendants of Uthman Dan Fodio is much worse than the thought of one’s son ending up marrying Ade next door!

Jeremy has posted a host of superb points which coincide with some I am compelled to point out below, forgive the sense of déjà vu, but I cant let “Never” say Never……………….

Consider the following quote:

“Never! Never!! Never!!! I support, like majority of Nigerians do, the recent ban on Sodomy, Gay or whatever you call it. It is against our culture. It is against our God. It is against nature. It is despicable. It is an abomination. Homophobic or no Homophobic, it will never be permitted in Nigeria, at least not in my life time. Democracy is the rule of the majority, and no amount of blackmail can overturn what the majority wants. Why can’t discussion be held over permission of Armed Robbery, Assasination etc…. Very soon Incest will be permitted in the so-called developed world…. I repeat, Never will Sodomy be permitted in Nigeria. And as you already know this, you are advised not to bother come to Nigeria to propagate your warped Idealogy, it’s either you’re stoned or you are sent to prison.”

My dear friend “Never”, your torrential outburst of such uncivilised comments highlight the very essence of why SSA’s (Sub Saharan Africans) will always be led by the tips of their noses, and thus will never perceive or ever achieve the greatness that is rightly theirs, and which lies just beyond the hamlet’s periphery!

Let’s take a point by point analysis of your drivel:

1. It is against our culture - What is “our” culture? What is culture? Who are “you”? Yoruba? Igbo? Hausa? Calabari? One of the many tribes found in the Delta area? They all have vastly different “cultures”, where some may even, shock horror actually permit such “despicable” behaviour! So unless you are some sort of “Homo-Universalis” you cannot stand as the perfect avatar representing the multi-”cultural” Nigeria. It’s thanks to Bible engrossed “anointed” folk like you, that “our” culture has been totally destroyed!

Thanks also to the ever pervasive and seductive “Western Civilizational Ideals” that invade our consciousness via the all powerful, omnipotent cable-TV, our incredibly impressionable so-called youth are on a nihilistic path to complete economic, social, psychological and spiritual decomposition! Just in case you haven’t noticed, “our” culture is rapidly mutating from an already deeply odious hybrid of the worst of African “culture” and western Imperial ideals into an even more despicable virus that now includes “Yo-Boy” “culture” otherwise know as “rap”! This is the point at which our once mighty CULTURES will reach their nadir, this onslaught of slack jawed, vacuous brained, mental degeneration, a disease called “Hip-Hop”! Yo muddafukka!

2. It is against our God - “Our” God? Speak for yourself my “anointed” little friend! Do you mean Yaweh, Allah “the most merciful”, or the real Gods, the traditional African “fetish” Gods that were swept away by the Imperial West and all conquering Arabian barbarian hordes? African “cultures” do not have A God, they have (or had) MANY! No Shit Sherlock Alert! Yaweh, Allah “the most merciful” and any other gorram monotheist, misogynistic, megalomaniacal “God” is a….FOREIGN IMPORT! DUH! FOREIGN to Africans, FOREIGN even to the bloody Westerners that brought these infernal religions over here to mentally chain us for millennia to come!

3. It is against nature - No my dear friend, it is as natural as a redneck lizard that just happened to have a blueneck instead due to genetic mutation, or aberration, its not “normal” but it is natural.

4. It is despicable - So is having anal sex with a woman, female circumcision, wife beating, child slavery, forced marriages etc, all well accepted African “cultural” practices!

5. It is an abomination - No, “Never”! It is an aberration of Nature as far as I see it, not an abomination. Reserve such a word for your cross-dressing, kleptomaniac, Yaweh fearing Houdini Governor(ess) from Bayelsa state! Come to think of it, how come this thieving transvestite wasn’t lynched (stoned preferably) by the predominantly God fearing “Nigerian” crowd instead of being given a Heroes welcome? Could this be a sign of decadent Western cultural infiltration?

6. It will never be permitted in Nigeria, at least not in my life time - Never say Never, “Never”! Let’s just hope your lifetime is considerably longer than the already woeful life expectancy of Nigeria being about 45? But hey, “Nigeria” as an entity may well have progressed to becoming, shall I say a “Federation of Independent States”, then your statement shall never be made wrong………………

7. Democracy is the rule of the majority - Really? In Africa? Are you honestly happy with how “our” country is economically, socially, infrastructurally etc? Roads, running water, light, all things taken for granted by most other “democracies” dot not exist in this one, why? Demallcrazy brought us such sterling talent as Alhaji Shagari if memory serves me well, and lets not forget our dear “Baba”, who although now seems to be attempting to do what he should have done decades ago, isn’t exactly addressing the really crucial problems this British Imperial misconstruct known as “Nigeria” is suffering from. Nigeria is an international laughing stock, a country of such astonishing contradictions as to be crazy enough to stun into silence the incessant chatter of a market mad man. Fabulously oil rich, agriculturally blessed, and awash with individuals of stunning intelligence, it’s people are amongst the most poverty stricken and deprived on this Earth, why is this “Never”? Do you still see this same-sex marriage debate as important enough to bust a valuable blood capillary over?

8. you are advised not to bother come to Nigeria to propagate your warped Idealogy, it’s either you’re stoned or you are sent to prison – Oh I “Never”! Now that’s what I call Civilisation! What a choice! Stoning by a baying mob of God’s greatest creations or a spell in a fetid cell in KiriKiri! This here statement proves beyond any doubt that these religious fanatics, whether “Christ”ian or Islamaniac want to take us kicking and screaming back 200 Centuries, back to a time where these primitive minded, woman beating sheep shaggers will feel most comfortable and in total control, just like the Taliban or the Theocrazy in the once great Persian Iran! No decadent Western ideals such as Human rights and Free Speech to interfere with the ongoing stoning, raping or stake burning, nice!

As Teju Cole succinctly put it:

So sad.

Both the law and its idiotic bible-quoting supporters. Should the very concept that other people might have private rights be so foreign to our society?

No mistake about it: this is a symptom of Nigeria’s intellectual and social stagnation.

“….a symptom of Nigeria’s intellectual and social stagnation”, too true, in fact I’d go as far as to say intellectual and social retrogression! As far as I can tell, we as a Nation in particular, a Race overall and a “Civilisation” as a whole are truly doomed, with people like the well “anointed” “Never” out there continuously getting brainwashed and mentally conditioned to do “God’s” work without rationale or question. It’s a bitter irony that our people endured physical slavery ordained by God no less for half a century before being unshackled by the much hated Westerner, but are now having to prepare to endure a millennia long onslaught of mentally enslaved drones working on behalf of an alien God!

8. Never will Sodomy be permitted in Nigeria – The last hurray! “Never” says Never again! But my good God fearing surf, the truth, always a bitter pill to take up the rear end is that the big “S” is happening in your precious God fearing country! Oh yes! In case you don’t know, the big “S” is a popular past time for our Northern neighbours as well as a shockingly common phenomenon in Secondary schools all over the country……Nigeria! That’s right my friend, don’t shy away just yet, unless you never went to, or knew anyone who went to boarding school, this was a worrying trend indeed. Oh silly me, that must have been a throwback to the British Empire’s public school model, so yet again we can blame the nasty West, the very place most of our youth cant wait to get into!

That ends my treatsy on “Never”s posting, I do hope he/she/it takes the blue pill and exits NeverNever land as soon as possible and hopefully be able to see the bigger picture, that vast, complex three dimensional picture that lays just beyond the hamlet’s periphery………………………

Jenny Lopez

33. owukori

January 23rd, 2006 at 4:59 pm

Anthony - Crude vile and misogynist.

34. owukori

January 23rd, 2006 at 5:11 pm

Sule - human rights are not a competition. If you took the time and trouble to find out you would learn that human rights activists have been at the forefront of exposing what is happening in Sudan, Somalia and the DRC. There are hundreds of people working directly in each of those countries and thousands world wide. It is easy to throw accusations at people and groups, it is much harder to actually do something that gives support to those being violated and calls to account the violaters.

35. Grace

January 23rd, 2006 at 6:03 pm

Homophobia:
Fear of the homosexual and homosexuality
Disgust towards homosexuality.
According to American Heritage Dictionary- fear or contempt towards lesbian and gay people.

Jenny Lopez, Sule, Trae, Anthony et al…y’all are homophobic! Deal with it.

36. Jenny Lopez

January 23rd, 2006 at 6:40 pm

Dear Grace

I have no phobia regarding homosexuals. If I’ve got this right, phobia means:

“an irrational or very powerful fear and dislike of something, for example spiders or confined spaces”

In other words, fear! Fear means:

“an unpleasant feeling of apprehension or distress caused by the presence or anticipation of danger”

I do not fear Homosexuals!

Regarding the definition of Homophobia I’ll go one better than the “American Heritage Dictionary”:

“showing an irrational hatred, disapproval, or fear of homosexuality, homosexual men and lesbians, and their culture”

I do not hate them (Religious Fanatics and “Yo-Boy” Rap “culture” take up most of my Hate bandwidth anyway, so no room to spare right now!).

I approve of their practices involving and in the presence of consenting adults ONLY. As mentioned earlier, the only thing I disapprove of regarding same-sex couples is rearing children, sorry but this formula does not compute! If this makes you, dear Grace see me as Homophobic, then so be it, end of……………

But I certainly do not fear them! Trust me, I have murdering Rap Gangsta thugs, White Supremacists, Islamic Fanatical Suicide Bombers, escaped criminal psychiatric patients, Eastern European gangsters, trigger happy Anti-Terrorist police officers, drunken football hooligans, joy riders, feral Council Housed Kids and drug dealing Somalians to worry about! I have NEVER been troubled by this oft vilified group, so why fear them?

I do hope you have the will and grace to understand this most delicate definition……………

Mais tarde!

Jenny Lopez

37. Grace

January 23rd, 2006 at 7:51 pm

If you do not fear or feel a particular disgust towards homosexuals, why be against a gay couple raising kids? You say this will be psychologically damaging to the child. In what way? Those words indicate a common idea that there’s something especially disturbing about a gay couple that a child should not be around. Or that the couple will influence the child to be gay, which is obviously a bad thing. That is why I think your views are homophobic. I believe most people today (including myself and yourself)are raised homophobic and it takes serious self-reflection, education on GLBTQ struggle and alliance with gay/bi/lesbian people and activists to overcome that.

Maybe you’ve done that already, I do not know. It’s just that your argument about children is a common one used to portray gay couples as warped. Plus your first point about not being homosympathetic/homophobic is a little disturbing. If a white person told me they were neither racist or antiracist, I would conclude that he/she is a closet racist, someone who is content to benefit from the system of racism while denying its power. With the racism that is so evident in the West, it is morally unacceptable for someone who is a beneficiary of that system of oppression to claim neutrality. Using that model, that is how I have come to understand heterosexism and homophobia.

38. Rosey

January 23rd, 2006 at 11:55 pm

Everyone, and I mean everyone need to leave gay people alone. Somehow, they managed to be blamed for every moral decay in any society they live in. Gay people are just that …GAY. They don’t have horns, they don’t have tails, they don’t make things appear from nowhere. They are just people, only homosexual. They love just like heteros love (except the object of their affection is one of the same sex.) I have known many gay couples and their love is just as pure, caring and turbulent as the love of heteros. They are capable of raising children, they are capable of having jobs, rarely do they ask for hand outs, only what they have coming to them. So I say to you all - stop demonizing gay people. Stop making heros or villains out of people who ask to be treated fairly. It’s getting old and bothersome. In Nigeria, there are more pressing issues we need to address. Going after gay couples is just one way for lawmakers to distract themselves from actually making laws that make sense. Please let us stay focused before we start a witch hunt that will open doors and closets we wish had stayed closed.

P.S. Homosexuality is as old as prostitution - in any society, including our dear old Nigeria.

39. Anthony Arojojoye

January 24th, 2006 at 9:29 am

If a misogynist is a man who hates women or believes that men are much better than women, then I must invite you for a dinner to see my sweetheart. I haven’t and never will be pegging the menfolk higher than the ladies. All humans are equal, Owukori! What makes a man different from a woman? I don’t care if a woman won the elections in Liberia. What I care about is for whoever is in charge to do something right to move the nation forward.
Neither do I fear anybody.Just don’t let that act generally considered shameless in Africa to infilterate my environment and drag any one in my family into it. You will sure need the paramedics if that happens, cos it could be worse than heart attack.
So can you withdraw the title you bestowed upon me? I don’t think I’m worthy of being called a misogynist. It’s a crown too heavy for my neck.

40. Jeremy

January 24th, 2006 at 1:34 pm

Sick from a turbulent stomach, I pondered the origins of homophobia around 3:30am this morning. It’s such an alien thought to me I have to work hard to understand it. Watching three men in the UK jump on a poor guy’s head until he died on Sky News (via CCTV footage) yesterday made me realise what I already knew: this form of virulent hatred is all around us. Unfortunately, its omnipresent in Nigeria, whereas it is confined to the edges in the UK.

So why are so many Nigerian men deeply homophobic (as evinced in the thread above)? I think the answer lies, as someone suggested above, in the entrenched patriarchy here. Men subconsciously or otherwise like to think of themselves as the boss (in their relationships with women). They subconsciously or otherwise therefore participate in the social norm which places men above women. Men who come along and desire differently, and who do not wish to own and control women, threaten the sanctity of male control and male power. The Nigerian male ego likes to prowl the savannah like a lion, king of his domain.

I grew up surrounded by strong opinionated women in a village in the UK. I’ve found out since moving to Naija that there’s many similarities to my upbringing and life over here. Village people are narrow minded curtain twitchers living in fear - the world over.

Well - the world was pretty much like that twenty or thirty years ago in the UK - men thinking of themselves as the Alpha, the Silverback Gorilla; the wife doing the ironing. But women (and their male supporters) pushed and fought and pushed again - and slowly things changed.

So the guys who’ve said that homosexuality is unAfrican yadayada are really saying that they don’t want their patriarchal world of man-control of the universe shaken. That is what I think they really fear I reckon (tell me I’m wrong).

But from what I see, its the women in this society who are actually changing things - Dora, Ngozi, Obi etc(they tend to be less corrupt, better leaders, better at handling complexity). So perhaps what we are witnessing are the first serious challenges to patriarchy in Nigeria, and the homophobic outbreaks sounding off from last week’s news of the proposed bill are the whimperings of patriarchal men who fear losing control.

41. owukori

January 24th, 2006 at 2:35 pm

JEREMY. I too find it hard to “get my head around” why people are so deeply homophobic as I could not imagine myself feeling like that about any person or group of people.

I have found that men are generally far more homophobic than women and far more homophobic about gay men than lesbians. The first challenges their own sexuality in that it raises their fears that they may also have or develop those same kind of feelings. Whilst the second again challenges their sexuality and positions of power (patriarchy).

ANTHONY you chose this for yourself. You pointed to Trae’s post and said “I dont wanna duplicate my energy” meaning you agree with his commentary. On that basis you will have to bear that crown.

The fact that you have a girlfriend, love Ellen Sirleaf-Johnson etc etc does not mean you are not sexist or even a misogynist. (Many of the slave plantation owners loved their slaves. Trae advocates raping lesbians and therefore by agreeing with him you too advocate the same. If that does not reveal a deep hatred of women I dont know what does. It is unfortuante that you cannot bear that crown. Do you ever wonder whether the attacks on homosexuals by people like you is an equally hard crown for THEM to bear?

I too have lived in Nigeria possibily for longer than your age and believe me there are plenty of gays and lesbians in the country. The reason you dont know of any or see any is because they are all in hiding, many are even married.

You say all people are equal but then go on to threaten violence against homosexuals. How do you work that one out? People do not get “dragged” into being homosexuals. They either are or are not and beating the crap out of them will not change that. It is not a contageous disease you know?

Maybe next time you will consider your words and actions carefully before emulating someone (Trae) so as to avoid being tarnished with the same label.

So Anthony I will not be withdrawing anything - meanwhile I walk in peace!

42. nike

January 24th, 2006 at 3:19 pm

To the Traes and Anthonys of this world, in so far as you are homophobic you are also sexist and misogynistic. Homophobia, sexism, heterosexism, patriarchy and misogynists are not seperate they are intricately connected. Ponder on this for a moment:

“Homophobia works effectively as a weapon of sexism because it is joined with a powerful arm, heterosexim. Heterosexism creates the climate for homophobia with its assumption that the world is and must be heterosexual and its display of power and privileges as the norm. Heterosexim is the systemic display of homophobia in the institutions of society. Heterosexism and homophobia work together to enforce complusory heterosexuality and that bastion of patriarchal power, the nuclear family [and polygamous family)”(culled from Suzanne Pharr - Homophobia: A weapon of sexism

43. Nneka

January 25th, 2006 at 3:21 pm

Its funny, cause we are a nation that absolutely thrives on hypocrisy

44. Nigeria Village Square

January 26th, 2006 at 12:55 pm

It will be interesting to read this

45. Jingo

January 29th, 2006 at 9:01 pm

This post has been removed

46. sondjata

January 31st, 2006 at 4:18 am

Shango is most definitely not a homosexual. The Oya comment was a hint. never been comfortable with the orisa=gods comparo. Normative behavior in the Odu-Ifa is heterosexual. deviances from that can be accounted for within the Odu-Ifa but it is laughable to suggest Shango is gay, and yes, it matters.

47. owukori

January 31st, 2006 at 4:25 am

You introduced the subject of Shango and homosexuality - for what purpose I dont know but I am really not intrested in pursuing this line of discussion as it has no relevance to this issue.

48. Monique Boivin

January 31st, 2006 at 4:52 am

To all who question the legitimacy of rights for homosexuals and transgender people across Africa and in the Diaspora:

If someone denies you the right to care for your mother, I will defend your right.

If someone denies you the right to friendship with a person from an ethnic group that is hated, may people rise up in your defense.

If someone denies me the right to love, protect, and be with the person I care most deeply about in this world, may their gender not be a cause for you to hate.

49. Charlotte

March 25th, 2008 at 12:59 pm

Marriage is a basic civil right that should be attainable by all people if they choose. For the truth about gay marriage check out our trailer. Produced to educate & defuse the controversy it has a way of opening closed minds & provides some sanity on the issue: www.OUTTAKEonline.com